Don Brash with Kim Hill. RNZ needs a new feature in their app

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Forums › Politics › Don Brash with Kim Hill. RNZ needs a new feature in their app - an optional Te Reo filter

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#1946590 25-Jan-2018 14:06

Pumpedd: I agree with compulsory Te Reo up until secondary school only. At this point we must do better at teaching our kids for life, and Te Reo is not part of that.

Te Reo is a big part of many lives. It is increasingly an advantage for many jobs in the private sector.

Geektastic

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#1946641 25-Jan-2018 15:05

gzt:
Pumpedd: I agree with compulsory Te Reo up until secondary school only. At this point we must do better at teaching our kids for life, and Te Reo is not part of that.

Te Reo is a big part of many lives. It is increasingly an advantage for many jobs in the private sector.

Examples? In all the time I have lived in NZ I have yet to meet anyone who can speak more than a few words or come across any real job (ie not some manufactured PC Wellington government nonsense job) where it would be remotely useful. Speaking Chinese would be more useful probably.

Geektastic

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#1946643 25-Jan-2018 15:06

MikeAqua:

Geektastic:

There also needs to be some point to learning it other than 'because we told you it was a good idea".

Agree. I call the "it's good for you" rationale the spinach argument.

At school the spinach argument saw us dragged to the ballet, the orchestra, particularity serious plays, musicals and even the opera. As a consequence I have been thoroughly inoculated against all those things and have visceral negative reaction to all of them.

Learning Te Reo (or any second langauge) would have been good for me at kindy or early in primary school. It would have aided my brain development and made it easier to learn languages later and decreased the likelihood of cognitive impairment in old age. The govt could have enforced it via the curriculum. In hindsight I wish they had. It's too late now - that critical development window closed decades ago.

I like that! Spinach argument. I shall appropriate that shamelessly.

MikeAqua

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#1946668 25-Jan-2018 15:14

gzt:
Te Reo is a big part of many lives. It is increasingly an advantage for many jobs in the private sector.

I've always seen job descriptions requiring or preferring fluency in Te Reo as code for preferring Maori candidates i.e not really about the language.

I've seen plenty vacancies at iwi trusts, iwi owned companies and Maori incorporations (which could be considered private sector) that require te reo. Some in govt roles (incl. universities etc). But I've only seen occasional roles in mainstream businesses (e.g. businesses seeking Maori Business Development Managers).

Mike

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#1946678 25-Jan-2018 15:20

MikeAqua:

gzt:
Te Reo is a big part of many lives. It is increasingly an advantage for many jobs in the private sector.

I've always seen job descriptions requiring or preferring fluency in Te Reo as code for preferring Maori candidates i.e not really about the language.

I've seen plenty vacancies at iwi trusts, iwi owned companies and Maori incorporations (which could be considered private sector) that require te reo. Some in govt roles (incl. universities etc). But I've only seen occasional roles in mainstream businesses (e.g. businesses seeking Maori Business Development Managers).

So less than 5% of NZ business?

Zero for business with international dealings, which is becoming more mainstream.

Rikkitic

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#1946692 25-Jan-2018 15:35

People who belong to the mainstream culture, and enjoy the benefits of that, often have trouble understanding the importance of the minority culture to people who belong to that. Encouraging and preserving Te Reo is also a way of respecting those people who value it. Just because an immigrant from England doesn't see the point, does not mean it doesn't matter.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeAqua

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#1946754 25-Jan-2018 16:15

Rikkitic:

People who belong to the mainstream culture, and enjoy the benefits of that, often have trouble understanding the importance of the minority culture to people who belong to that. Encouraging and preserving Te Reo is also a way of respecting those people who value it. Just because an immigrant from England doesn't see the point, does not mean it doesn't matter.

There are more languages extinct than extant. Languages evolve (maintain utility within community) or die out.

I understand the importance of Te Reo to Maori. It has utility within Maori culture. The trouble is outside the culture it lacks utility. In my life there are maybe 10 minutes each year where I wish I understood more Te Reo. I've never wished I was able to speak it.

I'm all for govt funding being utilised to preserve Te Reo. Because, I think govt should honour its treaty obligations. Govt funds Kohanga Reo, Te Reo immersions schools and Wananga - all of which contribute.

I would like to see primary schools teaching kids a second language. It really doesn't matter what that language is so it may as well be Te Reo. This kills two birds with one stone - gives kids the ability to be multi-lingual and fulfil govt obligations to preserve the language.

Mike

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Rikkitic

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#1946781 25-Jan-2018 16:38

I'm not sure where to draw the line. A language that can only limp along with artificial support is probably already a lost cause and should be let go. But every language that becomes extinct takes something away from our common cultural heritage. A language should not be allowed to die through mere indifference.

Do obscure languages have any value in a modern society? It is not always easy to predict what might be valuable in the future. Improved linguistic tools and advances in cultural anthropology make it possible to learn new things from old languages, but not if the languages are dead and had only an oral tradition. Many people now know the story of the very obscure native American Navajo language, which turned out to provide an indispensable encryption tool that the Japanese couldn't crack during World War II. The code talkers could not have existed if the language had been dead. It is not always easy to know what might become important.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

gzt

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#1946848 25-Jan-2018 20:56

MikeAqua:
gzt:
Te Reo is a big part of many lives. It is increasingly an advantage for many jobs in the private sector.

I've always seen job descriptions requiring or preferring fluency in Te Reo as code for preferring Maori candidates i.e not really about the language.

I've seen plenty vacancies at iwi trusts, iwi owned companies and Maori incorporations (which could be considered private sector) that require te reo. Some in govt roles (incl. universities etc). But I've only seen occasional roles in mainstream businesses (e.g. businesses seeking Maori Business Development Managers).

I'm not sure how many pakeha are fluent or close enough in Te Reo. It would be a fair number.

gzt

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#1946863 25-Jan-2018 21:00

Geektastic:
gzt:
Pumpedd: I agree with compulsory Te Reo up until secondary school only. At this point we must do better at teaching our kids for life, and Te Reo is not part of that.

Te Reo is a big part of many lives. It is increasingly an advantage for many jobs in the private sector.

Examples? In all the time I have lived in NZ I have yet to meet anyone who can speak more than a few words or come across any real job (ie not some manufactured PC Wellington government nonsense job) where it would be remotely useful. Speaking Chinese would be more useful probably.

Law would be one example. Trusts have assets to manage.

Geektastic

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#1946933 26-Jan-2018 00:34

Rikkitic:
People who belong to the mainstream culture, and enjoy the benefits of that, often have trouble understanding the importance of the minority culture to people who belong to that. Encouraging and preserving Te Reo is also a way of respecting those people who value it. Just because an immigrant from England doesn't see the point, does not mean it doesn't matter.

I'm still waiting to meet Kiwis that think it matters, never mind immigrants. Outside the PC ivory tower of Wellington and Academia, it's not really a thing.

MikeB4

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#1946958 26-Jan-2018 07:21

Geektastic:
Rikkitic:
People who belong to the mainstream culture, and enjoy the benefits of that, often have trouble understanding the importance of the minority culture to people who belong to that. Encouraging and preserving Te Reo is also a way of respecting those people who value it. Just because an immigrant from England doesn't see the point, does not mean it doesn't matter.

I'm still waiting to meet Kiwis that think it matters, never mind immigrants. Outside the PC ivory tower of Wellington and Academia, it's not really a thing.

It is a thing, I will meet folks fluent in Te Reo daily.

dafman

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#1946967 26-Jan-2018 07:54

Geektastic:
Rikkitic:

People who belong to the mainstream culture, and enjoy the benefits of that, often have trouble understanding the importance of the minority culture to people who belong to that. Encouraging and preserving Te Reo is also a way of respecting those people who value it. Just because an immigrant from England doesn't see the point, does not mean it doesn't matter.

I'm still waiting to meet Kiwis that think it matters, never mind immigrants. Outside the PC ivory tower of Wellington and Academia, it's not really a thing.

You shouldn't assume that your narrow circle of acquaintances reflects the broader community of the country you live in.

amiga500

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#1946985 26-Jan-2018 08:59

Hearing Te Reo every day on RNZ may get some people thinking about learning a new language whether it be Te Reo, French, Japanese, Chinese, and that can't be bad.

Pumpedd

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#1947011 26-Jan-2018 09:35

MikeB4:
Geektastic:
Rikkitic:

People who belong to the mainstream culture, and enjoy the benefits of that, often have trouble understanding the importance of the minority culture to people who belong to that. Encouraging and preserving Te Reo is also a way of respecting those people who value it. Just because an immigrant from England doesn't see the point, does not mean it doesn't matter.

I'm still waiting to meet Kiwis that think it matters, never mind immigrants. Outside the PC ivory tower of Wellington and Academia, it's not really a thing.

It is a thing, I will meet folks fluent in Te Reo daily.

If you are Maori or want to speak Te Reo that is excellent, but please do not push it or try and force on those of us that do not want to be part of it.

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